There's some really interesting discussion going on right now about What Science Fiction Is. nihilistic_kid says one thing, truepenny another, Ted Chiang another, and matociquala says it doesn't matter. I will hereby add my own unpublished and uninformed musings on the topic.
The first thing I want to do, before tackling the difference between the science fiction genre and the fantasy genre, is to define genre. A genre is a marketing category.
This is not something we like to talk about much, any more than the literary fiction folks like to admit that their categorization does not mean that they are the next James Joyce, but rather that they are best sold to people who like to think they're reading the next James Joyce. We like to think of speculative fiction as something greater. But let's face it: science fiction and fantasy are convenient labels slapped on books to describe the market demographic the publishers think will want to read the book. That the publishers occasionally drop acid first does not invalidate the basic definition. Science fiction is defined by the reader.
So to define science fiction and fantasy, we have to ask: what specific thing does this market demographic want that causes them to buy anything labeled "science fiction" or "fantasy"?
Well, they want an escape.
This is another thing we don't like to talk about. Escapism is such a dirty little word, one that our English teachers kept throwing at us (along with James Joyce. Ew.) But let's admit it: most of the people reading speculative fiction - or any type of fiction - are trying to escape from reality. As Tolkien once said, of course fiction is escapist: is it not the duty of the captured soldier to escape?* We try to escape reality because it's grinding us down, making us loose sight of the larger picture that fiction gives us; some of us will take that larger picture back into the world with us and do good with it, others will use it to hide in so that they have the pretense of change without the actual effort. Doesn't matter. For the subject at hand, the goal is the same: escape.
Fantasy offers the more perfect escape. It is never-never land, where you could be a princess and your boss probably got et by a dragon years ago... and where anything could happen, and good is really good, and evil is really evil. This is probably why fantasy sells better than science fiction, and why fantasy (in the form of folk tales) has been around far longer. The roots of fantasy run deep, right down into our bones, and the stories we read can pluck at those strings and make us shiver straight through. It's why the most powerful stories almost always contain an element of fantasy. It's also why there's so much crap fantasy around. Lotsa power = lotsa people flailing around trying to figure out how to use that power without sacrificing anything themselves. Just think of the bad writers as the two elder brothers.
Science fiction, on the other hand, is a relatively recent genre brought on by the relatively recent Western concept of progress. Suddenly the future became a place, a thing you could reach out to, journey toward, shape: and right alongside it came science fiction, the travelogue for the foreign country of Times To Come. The lure of science fiction is that it describes what could be, rather than never-never land. It could be real. Someday. Just how real it could be depends on how hard the writer works at fitting the unknown to the known and how much his reader base knows (which, in sf circles, is frequently a lot).
Science fiction reaches out and up: it wants the light. Fantasy reaches in and down: it faces the dark. Think of the one as a tree's branches and the other as a tree's roots. It's as good an analogy as any.
But both of these things are defined, not by us the writers, nor by the publishers, but by the readers, who do not know how to say what they want. "I don't like science fiction, it's nothing but a lot of machines," they say, meaning: there's too much light, it makes me feel stupid, I read fiction to get away from mean people who make me feel stupid. "I don't read fantasy, it's a bunch of kings and wars and rubbish," they say, meaning: it's too dark in here, it doesn't make sense that these things still have power over me, I read fiction to get away from things that don't make sense.
It is singularly pointless to argue with such people that science fiction isn't all machines or that fantasy isn't all kings and battles. The words that come from our mouths frequently have nothing to do with what we mean.
Readers are similarly shifty on what is science fiction and what is fantasy, because the definitions above are, in practice, very personal things. One person's "that could happen someday" is another's "that could never happen." And besides, there's plenty of speculative fiction that plays the field, so to speak. Some stories wear the clothes of the future over the bones of the fantastic: Ray Bradbury, for example, or Star Wars. Some stories go play in never-never land but take the light with them, like Charlie Stross's recent fantasies or any number of cheap D&D knockoffs. And then there's China Mieville's work, which is unquestionable fantasy structured in such a way that it appeals as much, if not more, to science fiction readers. This is speculative fiction. People will go on poking at the rules, looking for the bendy bits.
So does it matter at all what we write, when it's all a matter of market demographics and personal definitions?
Well, yes. If you're a writer and you think market demographics have no effect on your work, then I'd like a ticket to your never-never land. There's a perception among some writers that it's terribly low-class and avaricious to consider The Market when writing, and to an extent it's true. You can't let The Market write your book for you, even when you realize that The Market is just fancy talk for readers. But....
When I was a teenager, I read everything, and I mean everything. I read L. Ron Hubbard's atrocious trash, God help me. But there was a special class of books which I called Dent Books, because at a certain point they would upset me so badly that I threw them hard enough to dent the walls. Hubbard's books never got this treatment, because they were simply bad; the Dent Books were good, well-written books... but they got something wrong, horribly wrong, and because they were well-written their wrongness tainted the real thing and I had to throw them away hard and curl up and try to block the very existence of the book from my brain in an attempt to protect my old, real memory.**
You do not want to write Dent Books. Writing Dent Books means you have misunderstood something about your audience and what it wants, misunderstood it so badly that you neither miss it (as Hubbard did) nor honestly deconstruct it, but instead end up writing something called, perhaps, The Phantom Menace, that makes your audience wish to poke out their eyes with sharp sticks simply to preserve their old good memories.
Genre is important: not as marked territory for a Whose Writing Is Art pissing contest, but as a shared group of assumptions which must be either conformed to or challenged, but are ignored only at peril. If you are lucky, you will be reviled; if you are unlucky, you will simply be unpublished. Know your genre. Are you lighting a candle, or reaching into darkness? How much of each, and where? And why?
-------
*Disclaimer: Tolkien may or may not have said this. LeGuin says he did but cites not her sources. Well, who am I to argue with LeGuin?
**I perhaps took books a mite too seriously in my youth.
The first thing I want to do, before tackling the difference between the science fiction genre and the fantasy genre, is to define genre. A genre is a marketing category.
This is not something we like to talk about much, any more than the literary fiction folks like to admit that their categorization does not mean that they are the next James Joyce, but rather that they are best sold to people who like to think they're reading the next James Joyce. We like to think of speculative fiction as something greater. But let's face it: science fiction and fantasy are convenient labels slapped on books to describe the market demographic the publishers think will want to read the book. That the publishers occasionally drop acid first does not invalidate the basic definition. Science fiction is defined by the reader.
So to define science fiction and fantasy, we have to ask: what specific thing does this market demographic want that causes them to buy anything labeled "science fiction" or "fantasy"?
Well, they want an escape.
This is another thing we don't like to talk about. Escapism is such a dirty little word, one that our English teachers kept throwing at us (along with James Joyce. Ew.) But let's admit it: most of the people reading speculative fiction - or any type of fiction - are trying to escape from reality. As Tolkien once said, of course fiction is escapist: is it not the duty of the captured soldier to escape?* We try to escape reality because it's grinding us down, making us loose sight of the larger picture that fiction gives us; some of us will take that larger picture back into the world with us and do good with it, others will use it to hide in so that they have the pretense of change without the actual effort. Doesn't matter. For the subject at hand, the goal is the same: escape.
Fantasy offers the more perfect escape. It is never-never land, where you could be a princess and your boss probably got et by a dragon years ago... and where anything could happen, and good is really good, and evil is really evil. This is probably why fantasy sells better than science fiction, and why fantasy (in the form of folk tales) has been around far longer. The roots of fantasy run deep, right down into our bones, and the stories we read can pluck at those strings and make us shiver straight through. It's why the most powerful stories almost always contain an element of fantasy. It's also why there's so much crap fantasy around. Lotsa power = lotsa people flailing around trying to figure out how to use that power without sacrificing anything themselves. Just think of the bad writers as the two elder brothers.
Science fiction, on the other hand, is a relatively recent genre brought on by the relatively recent Western concept of progress. Suddenly the future became a place, a thing you could reach out to, journey toward, shape: and right alongside it came science fiction, the travelogue for the foreign country of Times To Come. The lure of science fiction is that it describes what could be, rather than never-never land. It could be real. Someday. Just how real it could be depends on how hard the writer works at fitting the unknown to the known and how much his reader base knows (which, in sf circles, is frequently a lot).
Science fiction reaches out and up: it wants the light. Fantasy reaches in and down: it faces the dark. Think of the one as a tree's branches and the other as a tree's roots. It's as good an analogy as any.
But both of these things are defined, not by us the writers, nor by the publishers, but by the readers, who do not know how to say what they want. "I don't like science fiction, it's nothing but a lot of machines," they say, meaning: there's too much light, it makes me feel stupid, I read fiction to get away from mean people who make me feel stupid. "I don't read fantasy, it's a bunch of kings and wars and rubbish," they say, meaning: it's too dark in here, it doesn't make sense that these things still have power over me, I read fiction to get away from things that don't make sense.
It is singularly pointless to argue with such people that science fiction isn't all machines or that fantasy isn't all kings and battles. The words that come from our mouths frequently have nothing to do with what we mean.
Readers are similarly shifty on what is science fiction and what is fantasy, because the definitions above are, in practice, very personal things. One person's "that could happen someday" is another's "that could never happen." And besides, there's plenty of speculative fiction that plays the field, so to speak. Some stories wear the clothes of the future over the bones of the fantastic: Ray Bradbury, for example, or Star Wars. Some stories go play in never-never land but take the light with them, like Charlie Stross's recent fantasies or any number of cheap D&D knockoffs. And then there's China Mieville's work, which is unquestionable fantasy structured in such a way that it appeals as much, if not more, to science fiction readers. This is speculative fiction. People will go on poking at the rules, looking for the bendy bits.
So does it matter at all what we write, when it's all a matter of market demographics and personal definitions?
Well, yes. If you're a writer and you think market demographics have no effect on your work, then I'd like a ticket to your never-never land. There's a perception among some writers that it's terribly low-class and avaricious to consider The Market when writing, and to an extent it's true. You can't let The Market write your book for you, even when you realize that The Market is just fancy talk for readers. But....
When I was a teenager, I read everything, and I mean everything. I read L. Ron Hubbard's atrocious trash, God help me. But there was a special class of books which I called Dent Books, because at a certain point they would upset me so badly that I threw them hard enough to dent the walls. Hubbard's books never got this treatment, because they were simply bad; the Dent Books were good, well-written books... but they got something wrong, horribly wrong, and because they were well-written their wrongness tainted the real thing and I had to throw them away hard and curl up and try to block the very existence of the book from my brain in an attempt to protect my old, real memory.**
You do not want to write Dent Books. Writing Dent Books means you have misunderstood something about your audience and what it wants, misunderstood it so badly that you neither miss it (as Hubbard did) nor honestly deconstruct it, but instead end up writing something called, perhaps, The Phantom Menace, that makes your audience wish to poke out their eyes with sharp sticks simply to preserve their old good memories.
Genre is important: not as marked territory for a Whose Writing Is Art pissing contest, but as a shared group of assumptions which must be either conformed to or challenged, but are ignored only at peril. If you are lucky, you will be reviled; if you are unlucky, you will simply be unpublished. Know your genre. Are you lighting a candle, or reaching into darkness? How much of each, and where? And why?
-------
*Disclaimer: Tolkien may or may not have said this. LeGuin says he did but cites not her sources. Well, who am I to argue with LeGuin?
**I perhaps took books a mite too seriously in my youth.
posted at 12:29 AM on 12/03/05
by kat -
Category: Writing
Stumble It!
Comments
elizabeth bear wrote:
Smart
12/03/05 02:38 AM
Jeff VanderMeer wrote:
No one wants to talk about marketing? No one wants to talk about escapism? Shit--that's all anybody talks about, especially on panels at conventions.
Also, I hope you're talking about marketing post-creation. Thinking about marketing and where your work might be placed pre-creation is folly.
JeffV
Also, I hope you're talking about marketing post-creation. Thinking about marketing and where your work might be placed pre-creation is folly.
JeffV
12/03/05 08:55 AM
Jeff VanderMeer wrote:
I'd also argue that these things definitely ARE decided by the publishers in many cases. Whether readers buy how a book has been identified by a publisher is another thing.
JeffV
JeffV
12/03/05 08:56 AM
Andrew Trembley wrote:
I'm not so sure on the "That's too dark/light" being a major or even valid reason people don't like one or the other.
A friend of mine just can't stand SF, but loves fantasy. He's a leading researcher in the field of magnetoelectronics. He doesn't dislike SF because it makes him feel stupid, he dislikes SF because he knows too much and can't suspend his disbelief. Inconsistent or inexplicable magic is fine; inconsistent or inexplicable technology and science isn't.
He's not the only one. There are legions of SF fans who love hard SF but when it comes to science fantasy are indifferent at best. Granted, many SF fans don't differentiate between the two, but enough do that such categories exist.
A friend of mine just can't stand SF, but loves fantasy. He's a leading researcher in the field of magnetoelectronics. He doesn't dislike SF because it makes him feel stupid, he dislikes SF because he knows too much and can't suspend his disbelief. Inconsistent or inexplicable magic is fine; inconsistent or inexplicable technology and science isn't.
He's not the only one. There are legions of SF fans who love hard SF but when it comes to science fantasy are indifferent at best. Granted, many SF fans don't differentiate between the two, but enough do that such categories exist.
12/03/05 07:53 PM
kat wrote:
Jeff:
People do talk about marketing a lot, especially published authors, especially at cons. Remember, though, that I am still mostly hanging with the unpublished crowd out here, and there you still run across the black-beret writing-for-the-market-is-evil gang. Probably there is a good reason they remain mostly unpublished. I also hadn't seen much discussion so far of the readers in this talk of "what sf really is" so I thought it worth pointing out.
As for escapism, the only time I can remember it being discussed was a panel I was on last July in Toronto called "Shakespeare vs. SF" in which the panelists nearly got into a fistfight over the issue, but I can count my cons on my fingers yet, so maybe that's the problem.
Marketing post-creation depends on how you define creation. I wholeheartedly agree that you shouldn't think about much beyond the world when you're writing the first draft, but on the rewrite, you'd damn well better think about it. Rewrites, for me, are where I try to get my themes in a line and figure out where I'm conforming to reader expectations and where I'm flaunting them and what I need to do about both, as much or more as they're about catching typos and patching that really crappy dialogue in chapter two. This is why I have alpha readers. There responses tell me where I've done something wonky and whether it's wonky enough that I need to axe it or defend it.
As for publishers... well, yes, and see the "dropping acid" comment above, but the publishers are at least theoretically responding to what readers want. Besides, I know lots of readers but few publishers. It's easier to speculate on the motives of the former that the latter.
People do talk about marketing a lot, especially published authors, especially at cons. Remember, though, that I am still mostly hanging with the unpublished crowd out here, and there you still run across the black-beret writing-for-the-market-is-evil gang. Probably there is a good reason they remain mostly unpublished. I also hadn't seen much discussion so far of the readers in this talk of "what sf really is" so I thought it worth pointing out.
As for escapism, the only time I can remember it being discussed was a panel I was on last July in Toronto called "Shakespeare vs. SF" in which the panelists nearly got into a fistfight over the issue, but I can count my cons on my fingers yet, so maybe that's the problem.
Marketing post-creation depends on how you define creation. I wholeheartedly agree that you shouldn't think about much beyond the world when you're writing the first draft, but on the rewrite, you'd damn well better think about it. Rewrites, for me, are where I try to get my themes in a line and figure out where I'm conforming to reader expectations and where I'm flaunting them and what I need to do about both, as much or more as they're about catching typos and patching that really crappy dialogue in chapter two. This is why I have alpha readers. There responses tell me where I've done something wonky and whether it's wonky enough that I need to axe it or defend it.
As for publishers... well, yes, and see the "dropping acid" comment above, but the publishers are at least theoretically responding to what readers want. Besides, I know lots of readers but few publishers. It's easier to speculate on the motives of the former that the latter.
12/04/05 11:12 AM
kat wrote:
Andrew:
I very nearly added a ramble about this to the post, but realized that I'd already written more on the blog than I had in my past two days on my novel. *wry grin* Cat-vacuuming, indeed.
The short of it is that yes, I think suspension of disbelief or the lack thereof is very important in science fiction, and the more so because it's so variable. Some people can't stand blurry tech, others dislike thousands-of-years futuristic cultures that are inexplicably using feet and inches for measurement or treating women as second-class citizens, and still others get annoyed by characters who teeter precariously and then fall over with a clatter of cardboard when you poke them. The important thing is to know your audience and know which particular things will bug them beyond measure and which they will accept for the sake of the story. In fantasy it's even harder, because you tend to be working less on factual data (we know this works in this way) than gut instinct.
I didn't get into it much because I think it's a sub-category distinction, a reason people read one area of speculative fiction and not another. What I was trying to get at with the dark/light stuff - rather clumsily, I admit - was the legions of readers who Just Don't Get one side or the other. For a good example read David Brin's essays on Star Wars and Tolkien: I agree with some of his points, but others only work if you are taking a work of fantastic fiction as an entirely rational business.
Um....
Brin is an example of someone who will cheerfully overlook minor physics violations in the name of story, but can't handle the utterly irrational world of fantasy. For other people - like your friend - science fiction, which purports to be based on rationality, is less acceptable than the declared-irrational fantasy because they can see its flawed basis. That's fine. But I'd still argue that the distinction we're looking at here is between the rational outer world and the irrational and messy inner one. Or the light and the dark, to use my it's-midnight-and-I'm-muddled terminology.
I very nearly added a ramble about this to the post, but realized that I'd already written more on the blog than I had in my past two days on my novel. *wry grin* Cat-vacuuming, indeed.
The short of it is that yes, I think suspension of disbelief or the lack thereof is very important in science fiction, and the more so because it's so variable. Some people can't stand blurry tech, others dislike thousands-of-years futuristic cultures that are inexplicably using feet and inches for measurement or treating women as second-class citizens, and still others get annoyed by characters who teeter precariously and then fall over with a clatter of cardboard when you poke them. The important thing is to know your audience and know which particular things will bug them beyond measure and which they will accept for the sake of the story. In fantasy it's even harder, because you tend to be working less on factual data (we know this works in this way) than gut instinct.
I didn't get into it much because I think it's a sub-category distinction, a reason people read one area of speculative fiction and not another. What I was trying to get at with the dark/light stuff - rather clumsily, I admit - was the legions of readers who Just Don't Get one side or the other. For a good example read David Brin's essays on Star Wars and Tolkien: I agree with some of his points, but others only work if you are taking a work of fantastic fiction as an entirely rational business.
Um....
Brin is an example of someone who will cheerfully overlook minor physics violations in the name of story, but can't handle the utterly irrational world of fantasy. For other people - like your friend - science fiction, which purports to be based on rationality, is less acceptable than the declared-irrational fantasy because they can see its flawed basis. That's fine. But I'd still argue that the distinction we're looking at here is between the rational outer world and the irrational and messy inner one. Or the light and the dark, to use my it's-midnight-and-I'm-muddled terminology.
12/04/05 11:32 AM
gord wrote:
12/13/05 10:17 AM
gord wrote:
I want to add that I think well-written fiction that isn't fantasy often also can reflect the muddled inner-world fantastically. PK Dick for example does this.
I think Brin's essays on Star Wars and Tolkien demonstrate what kinds of silly claims proceed from (a) (in the case of Star Wars) taking schlocky science-fantasy as more significant than it in fact is, and (b) reading fiction written in a certain, differing mode literally.
In the vein of (b), writing literary criticisms of the Bible full of, "So, Yahweh is a monarchist, and anti-democratic!" for example is just plain bananas -- it's so beyond missing the point that it's laughable. Yes, LotR is full of essentialist, monarchist, elitist sentiments. Yes, Star Wars is full of bloodline-mythic, elitist, pseudo-Zen New Age moralizing. I'd argue that both these tales are mythic fantasy epics, and not only that; they're not even so far off from what we see in other (exemplary) mythic epics in history. The myth of the good king (or the noble, purehearted knight, or the spiritual redemption of the genocidal maniac) is certainly mistaken, but you know, plenty of people in the world (and even in America alone) would also contest the myth of functional American democracy, or the supposedly eminent genius of the American people, or all kinds of other mythic/poetical notions. It strikes me as a kind of willful selection of which myths to reject or accept, all the while claiming to use criteria that would equally apply to what one chooses to reject.
But I'm going to leave all this alone. I've said too much...
I haven't said enough.
That's me in the corner...
*cringes, kicks mandolin away and stops singing*
I think Brin's essays on Star Wars and Tolkien demonstrate what kinds of silly claims proceed from (a) (in the case of Star Wars) taking schlocky science-fantasy as more significant than it in fact is, and (b) reading fiction written in a certain, differing mode literally.
In the vein of (b), writing literary criticisms of the Bible full of, "So, Yahweh is a monarchist, and anti-democratic!" for example is just plain bananas -- it's so beyond missing the point that it's laughable. Yes, LotR is full of essentialist, monarchist, elitist sentiments. Yes, Star Wars is full of bloodline-mythic, elitist, pseudo-Zen New Age moralizing. I'd argue that both these tales are mythic fantasy epics, and not only that; they're not even so far off from what we see in other (exemplary) mythic epics in history. The myth of the good king (or the noble, purehearted knight, or the spiritual redemption of the genocidal maniac) is certainly mistaken, but you know, plenty of people in the world (and even in America alone) would also contest the myth of functional American democracy, or the supposedly eminent genius of the American people, or all kinds of other mythic/poetical notions. It strikes me as a kind of willful selection of which myths to reject or accept, all the while claiming to use criteria that would equally apply to what one chooses to reject.
But I'm going to leave all this alone. I've said too much...
I haven't said enough.
That's me in the corner...
*cringes, kicks mandolin away and stops singing*
12/13/05 10:32 AM
Rick wrote:
Since genre is indeed a marketing thing in the first place, usually the setting alone determines what the genre is.
My novel-being-hustled is conceptually science fiction, complete with cool high-tech whizbangs and hints of new worlds Out There. But the setting is a parallel Renaissance and the whizbangs are bow guns on galleys, so it will most certainly be marketed as a fantasy.
My novel-being-hustled is conceptually science fiction, complete with cool high-tech whizbangs and hints of new worlds Out There. But the setting is a parallel Renaissance and the whizbangs are bow guns on galleys, so it will most certainly be marketed as a fantasy.
12/16/05 10:01 AM
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